Johnson JP-R2/12-T - an alternative to the Rickenbacker 330/12

[bedsitter]

I can´t play right on the Ric 330/12, as the fretboard is to small for
my hands. So I bought a Johnson copy of it. The fretboard is 48mm
wide, perfect for bigger hands. A great guitar for a rediculously low
price (ca. 300 Euro)

http://www.blutrade.de/Guitars/Johnson_JP-LPD-T/johnson_jp-lpd-t.html

The sound is great through my Rose Morris VOX AC 30. Pure
jingle-jangle.

[Cactus Jammies]

Sure like to see some reviews of that Johnson stuff, is it available by N
american distrib, I wonder?

Cactus Jammies

I canŽt play right on the Ric 330/12, as the fretboard is to small for
my hands. So I bought a Johnson copy of it. The fretboard is 48mm
wide, perfect for bigger hands. A great guitar for a rediculously low
price (ca. 300 Euro)
http://www.blutrade.de/Guitars/Johnson_JP-LPD-T/johnson_jp-lpd-t.html
The sound is great through my Rose Morris VOX AC 30. Pure
jingle-jangle.

[cardesnr99]

CJ, you apparently do not understand the concept of intellectual
property.

I do not give much hope for this guitar ever appearing in the USA--if
it did, Rick would be on Johnson like a pack of Rottweilers on a pork
chop bone. That's why you see it on a German site, and depending on how
strongly RIC can enforce their rights to this design, it may disappear
there, too.

Asian manufacturers (Korean and Chinese specifically) will make
anything a customer wants to order--the concept of intellectual
property is a fairly new one to them.

I am skeptical of this guitar performing like a true Rick.

There is always someone who will make something at a cheaper price than
another, and those purchasers who select by price alone will get what
they paid for.

It's a Rippenfocker, by the way...

[Cactus Jammies]

I don't intend on buying anything from this line, I was just asking so I
could look up the specs in English rather that German. The telecaster I'm
building probably costs three times as much for parts as one of these
suckers.

Cactus Jammies
Using genuine replacement parts by Fender license.

Post by cardesnr99
CJ, you apparently do not understand the concept of intellectual
property.
I do not give much hope for this guitar ever appearing in the USA--if
it did, Rick would be on Johnson like a pack of Rottweilers on a pork
chop bone. That's why you see it on a German site, and depending on how
strongly RIC can enforce their rights to this design, it may disappear
there, too.
Asian manufacturers (Korean and Chinese specifically) will make
anything a customer wants to order--the concept of intellectual
property is a fairly new one to them.
I am skeptical of this guitar performing like a true Rick.
There is always someone who will make something at a cheaper price than
another, and those purchasers who select by price alone will get what
they paid for.
It's a Rippenfocker, by the way...

[s***@stevedix.de]

Post by Cactus Jammies
I don't intend on buying anything from this line, I was just asking so I
could look up the specs in English rather that German. The

telecaster I'm

Post by Cactus Jammies
building probably costs three times as much for parts as one of these
suckers.

Here's a translation, then :

A Hard Day's Night - the most famous opening chord of all time. With
this Johnson JP-R2/12-T, you have the authentic sound in hand.

Specification : 12-string semi acoustic, 2 pickups with volume and tone
controls each, with a finish resembling Fireglow.

An absolutely beautiful copy of a classic, with real look and feel.
Tidily-built, good sound and all this for that price.

If you wish to read more over the quality of this instrument, you can
find a review of the 6-string model in "Gitarre und Bass" (German
Magazine).

Warehouse Special Price 299 Euro.

--
http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/ http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals
http://www.snorty.net/ http://www.stevedix.de/blog

[Cactus Jammies]

Thanks, Steve. You would be interested in the familiar (reversed) headstock
shape I am using for that Telecaster. I copied the Ric maple and mahogany
lamination idea too, although I read about it previously in a guitar
builders forum, as maple and mahogany seem to work together well regardless
of how the grain may be oriented one piece to another, or over all, as long
as it is running end to end, of course. A lot of people are leary of
western big leaf Maple, but it can be tamed. My neck blanks were made about
8 months ago and I think they're stable enough now to start chopping them
up.

I was wondering chiefly about whether the specs on the sellers web site went
into any detail about the neck assemblies. The issue I have will the Leo
Fender way of prepping a headstock is that it creates a lot of string
tension, and I was wondering if there are other ways to compensate the
design so as to spread that tension out a little better. It's not too late
to put a 3 degree reverse for the headstock part instead of working on a
contigeous piece of blank. Decisions decisions! Chaos, I tell ya.

Here's one for the memory of that thorn in print, Hunter S Thompson. Roll
on buddy!

8-)

cactus jammies

Post by Cactus Jammies

Post by Cactus Jammies
I don't intend on buying anything from this line, I was just asking

so I

Post by Cactus Jammies
could look up the specs in English rather that German. The

telecaster I'm

Post by Cactus Jammies
building probably costs three times as much for parts as one of these
suckers.

A Hard Day's Night - the most famous opening chord of all time. With
this Johnson JP-R2/12-T, you have the authentic sound in hand.
Specification : 12-string semi acoustic, 2 pickups with volume and tone
controls each, with a finish resembling Fireglow.
An absolutely beautiful copy of a classic, with real look and feel.
Tidily-built, good sound and all this for that price.
If you wish to read more over the quality of this instrument, you can
find a review of the 6-string model in "Gitarre und Bass" (German
Magazine).
Warehouse Special Price 299 Euro.
--
http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/ http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals
http://www.snorty.net/ http://www.stevedix.de/blog

[s***@stevedix.de]

I don't know much about that, but I know a man who does : Paul Creedy
of Arrowhead guitars.

http://www.arrowheadguitars.co.uk/


I know his website isn't updated much, but that's mainly due to the
fact that he's got a lot of work on...

--
http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/ http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals
http://www.snorty.net/ http://www.stevedix.de/blog

[supper]

I guess this guitar will mainly be purchased by people who can't afford the
real thing.And maybe buy the original later when they do have the do.
(or stick with the copy if it plays better due to the wider neck:-)
So there won't be much damage -financially- for the Rick company.(maybe
even learn something about better playability!)
But that's my view.........
CopyŽs were built as long as I can remember and no guitar factory ever
closed because of that.(or?)

Martin

[Scott McDaniel]

Post by supper
CopyŽs were built as long as I can remember and no guitar factory ever
closed because of that.(or?)

Holy Fuck!
Do we have to go through this again?

[bedsitter]

If a Strat or a Les Paul is copied, nobody complains. But if a Ric is
copied some people behave, as if the holy grail of music is destroyed.
Even Fender sells a Gibson 335-copy in their new catalogue. Why (exept
from legal cases) not a Ric? Where´s the problem?

The only reason for buying this (btw really good)Johnson 12-string
wasn´t the price, it was simply the fact that the fretboard is much
more comfortable than the Ric one, as the width on the Johnson is
48mm. On the Ric 330/12 I can´t play right, and if Ric is only a
little bit clever, they were offering a wider fretboard for the 330/12
or the 360/12.

Post by cardesnr99
CJ, you apparently do not understand the concept of intellectual
property.
I do not give much hope for this guitar ever appearing in the USA--if
it did, Rick would be on Johnson like a pack of Rottweilers on a pork
chop bone. That's why you see it on a German site, and depending on how
strongly RIC can enforce their rights to this design, it may disappear
there, too.
Asian manufacturers (Korean and Chinese specifically) will make
anything a customer wants to order--the concept of intellectual
property is a fairly new one to them.
I am skeptical of this guitar performing like a true Rick.
There is always someone who will make something at a cheaper price than
another, and those purchasers who select by price alone will get what
they paid for.
It's a Rippenfocker, by the way...

[cardesnr99]

Post by bedsitter
If a Strat or a Les Paul is copied, nobody complains.

Haven't you heard of the Gibson Les Paul/ PRS lawsuit?

Unfortunately, Leo himself violated his own earlier designs when he
copied them for Music Man.

Fender and Rickenbacker have a different history and deal with
trademark issues from different perspectives, apparently. But Fender
does defend some stuff fiercely. Try finding a Fender headstock decal
on eBay now. A few years ago, there were lots!

[bedsitter]

Haven't you heard of the Gibson Les Paul/ PRS lawsuit?

No, I´m not interested in PRS-Guitars

Fender and Rickenbacker have a different history and deal with
trademark issues from different perspectives, apparently. But Fender
does defend some stuff fiercely. Try finding a Fender headstock decal
on eBay now. A few years ago, there were lots!

Fender Guitars (Tele and Strat) are about 50 years old now. A Ric 12-string
about 40 years now. Most of the patents aren´t valid anymore. I see no
reason, why a producer like Johnson now has no rights to bulid a good copy?

[Steve Lasko]

Fender Guitars (Tele and Strat) are about 50 years old now. A Ric 12-string
about 40 years now. Most of the patents aren´t valid anymore. I see no
reason, why a producer like Johnson now has no rights to bulid a good copy?

This isn't necessarily a patent issue. Rickenbacker's look is protected by
trade dress protection under the Lanham Act. That protection can last
indefinitely.

The reason Johnson can't legally copy Rickenbacker's appearance to build a
good copy is that it would then allow any company to build bad copies,
thereby potentially confusing customers, and damaging Rickenbacker's brand
equity.

--Steve
http://www.janglebox.com
http://www.lasko-design.com

[cardesnr99]

You nailed it, Steve. "Trade dress" is the operative principle here.

[bedsitter]

Yes, could be. But here in Germany even Europe´s biggest music seller
(thomann.de) was selling Ric copys under the brand "Jim Harley" and
"Harley Benton". Thomann is not a
half-year-trading-then-fade-away-chinese company, they´re a well known
dealer and are selling even original Rics.

Post by cardesnr99
You nailed it, Steve. "Trade dress" is the operative principle here.

[cardesnr99]

Post by bedsitter
Yes, could be. But here in Germany even Europe´s biggest music seller
(thomann.de) was selling Ric copys under the brand "Jim Harley" and
"Harley Benton". Thomann is not a
half-year-trading-then-fade-away-chinese company, they´re a well known
dealer and are selling even original Rics.

1. German law regarding "trade dress" may be different from USA law, or
possibly even absent, or worded to protect German companies only
(wouldn't surprise me).

2. The protection may have to be sought, country by country, as patent
protection must.

There is a reason that RIC seems to not be pursuing this. They may be
unprotected, seeking protection, or seeking redress, which would take a
while to become obvious to the general public.

"Harley Benton". Sounds like the conniving boss in a bad soap opera.

[David Ranc]

Post by Steve Lasko

Fender Guitars (Tele and Strat) are about 50 years old now. A Ric 12-string
about 40 years now. Most of the patents aren´t valid anymore. I see no
reason, why a producer like Johnson now has no rights to bulid a good copy?

This isn't necessarily a patent issue. Rickenbacker's look is protected by
trade dress protection under the Lanham Act. That protection can last
indefinitely.

But in the US only. Their brand might be protected in different countries
and under international treaties on copyrights, though.

[bedsitter]

This dealer in the USA has Johnson Guitars:
http://www.guitarshop.net/guitars4salenewjohnson.htm

A review? Well, could be difficult.
There´s one I know for the 6 string version. In German, and it´s not for free:
http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/0309/titel.htm

Post by bedsitter
I can´t play right on the Ric 330/12, as the fretboard is to small for
my hands. So I bought a Johnson copy of it. The fretboard is 48mm
wide, perfect for bigger hands. A great guitar for a rediculously low
price (ca. 300 Euro)
http://www.blutrade.de/Guitars/Johnson_JP-LPD-T/johnson_jp-lpd-t.html
The sound is great through my Rose Morris VOX AC 30. Pure
jingle-jangle.

[Robin]

Presumably this will give rise (excuse the pun) to a new rock & roll
expression about playing one's Johnson.

RS