High Gain pickups are bad on Rickenbacker guitars

[Jeff]

Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

[David Axt]

You could always unwind the pickups that you have. I have never done it,
but have heard of a few success stories.

I think there is even a website that explains how to do it. Maybe it is on
the Rickenbacker Forum.

David

Post by Jeff
Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

[J. Oliver Bryan]

I play my 360 with hi-gains through an old Ampeg VT-40 combo and it sounds
absolutely rad. I wonder if it's possible that you just got some bunk
pickups...? Good luck with your VPs!

Post by Jeff
Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

[Charles Dryden]

I'm sorry, but I have hi-gains on my 330 and 620, and love the sound I get.
I also have a 360/12 with 7.5k vps and that suits the sound I want from a
12.

chas

On 10/10/03 7:23 pm, in article

Post by Jeff
Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

[Toby Rider]

Post by Charles Dryden
I'm sorry, but I have hi-gains on my 330 and 620, and love the sound I get.
I also have a 360/12 with 7.5k vps and that suits the sound I want from a
12.

The hi-gains have a different sound then the old pickups, but I feel
like they both have their place..

[Richard]

I've been down this road more than a few times on this newsgroup. LOL
I prefer 1970 and older toaster pickups. If those aren't availible
get rewound toasters or the 7.4k scatterwounds.

I have grown to not only appreciate but seeking to add a 70's or
pre-84 hi-gain Ric to my collection. Many artists such as "The Jam"
and "REM" actually prefer the hi-gain pickups. I think unwinding
hi-gains to attempt to make them sound like a toaster pickup is the
same as ordering a Big Mac and removing all the extras just to have a
regular hamburger. Might be easier just to order a plain hamburger.

Most people assume by combinding a Ric with any issue Vox amp
automatically equals "Beatle" tone or "jangle."

The Byrds and REM used Fender amps. The Beatles used a variety of
amps throughout there career. Having played different Ric's both
vintage and 90's reissues through both vintage and reissue Vox amps I
honestly prefer Fender Blackface/silverface amps as they yield that
"jangle" sound I am looking for.

Post by Jeff
Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

[Teleologist]

I have a vintage 360/12 with toasters and a modern one with HiGains and
there's much less difference between them thru a BF/SF Fender than thru
a Vox AC30 or a Fender tweed amp. A hotter PUP with more windings will
normally produce more midrange but the BF/SF Fender tone circuits scoop
out a lot more mids and have more top end than a Vox or tweed amp.

I've also read that moving the coils farther from the strings brightens
the sound as does using a stronger magnet so un-winding a Hi Gain down
to toaster specs might result in a too-bright or harsh-sounding PUP.

FWIW, my modern 360 came from the factory with 500K tone controls
instead of 250K(don't know why - maybe they were running low or??) and I
added a .0047uF cap across the 5th knob to roll-off some bass from the
neck PUP when desired. The HiGains both measure ~10.5K.

I also agree about the difference between a Brit Invasion sound(Vox) or
the West Coast jangle(Fender).


In article <***@news.shawneelink.net>, ***@dynasty.net
says...

Post by Richard
I've been down this road more than a few times on this newsgroup. LOL
I prefer 1970 and older toaster pickups. If those aren't availible
get rewound toasters or the 7.4k scatterwounds.
I have grown to not only appreciate but seeking to add a 70's or
pre-84 hi-gain Ric to my collection. Many artists such as "The Jam"
and "REM" actually prefer the hi-gain pickups. I think unwinding
hi-gains to attempt to make them sound like a toaster pickup is the
same as ordering a Big Mac and removing all the extras just to have a
regular hamburger. Might be easier just to order a plain hamburger.
Most people assume by combinding a Ric with any issue Vox amp
automatically equals "Beatle" tone or "jangle."
The Byrds and REM used Fender amps. The Beatles used a variety of
amps throughout there career. Having played different Ric's both
vintage and 90's reissues through both vintage and reissue Vox amps I
honestly prefer Fender Blackface/silverface amps as they yield that
"jangle" sound I am looking for.

Post by Jeff
Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

[Roy]

Actually Peter Buck of R.E.M. has used Vox AC-30s quite a bit as well as
several Mesa Boogie amps. (And he has quite a collection of guitars, though
he is mostly seen with his trusty Jetglo 360 six string and occasionally a
les paul esp during the Monster phase)


"Richard" <***@dynasty.net> wrote in message news:***@news.shawneelink.net...
snip

Post by Richard
The Byrds and REM used Fender amps. The Beatles used a variety of
amps throughout there career. Having played different Ric's both
vintage and 90's reissues through both vintage and reissue Vox amps I
honestly prefer Fender Blackface/silverface amps as they yield that
"jangle" sound I am looking for.

[Richard]

If you look at early photos and video clips of REM Buck is using a
Silverface Twin Reverb. I think it was less an issue of "jangle" or
amp preference but affordability.

Post by Roy
Actually Peter Buck of R.E.M. has used Vox AC-30s quite a bit as well as
several Mesa Boogie amps. (And he has quite a collection of guitars, though
he is mostly seen with his trusty Jetglo 360 six string and occasionally a
les paul esp during the Monster phase)
snip

Post by Richard
The Byrds and REM used Fender amps. The Beatles used a variety of
amps throughout there career. Having played different Ric's both
vintage and 90's reissues through both vintage and reissue Vox amps I
honestly prefer Fender Blackface/silverface amps as they yield that
"jangle" sound I am looking for.

[Roy]

Quite right, I've seen that pic. I'm sure he's got an arsenal of amps and
axes.

Post by Richard
If you look at early photos and video clips of REM Buck is using a
Silverface Twin Reverb. I think it was less an issue of "jangle" or
amp preference but affordability.

[Kneel Jung]

Post by Richard
If you look at early photos and video clips of REM Buck is using a
Silverface Twin Reverb. I think it was less an issue of "jangle" or
amp preference but affordability.

LOL!! Yeah I would definitely agree, there.

Back in the day those lads were as broke
as any struggling hopeful rock band .

I played in an REM-influenced band in the
80s(high school; as a drummer ! )& our
guitarist played a fireglow 360 thru a
garden- variety twin .. I never liked his
sound,, hated it in fact .

Actually as much as I loved REM then,
in retrospect, the actual tone wasn't that
great .

OTOH, Pete Townshend's Ric thru a
' 63 Fender Pro and a single 15" was a
glorious sound too my ears even to this
day .

Also really dug the Byrds Ric/Fender amp
tones as well as Arthur Lee w/ LOVE .

Now, there was some great tone/attitude!

Dave

[Tostada]

Post by Jeff
Anyone had the same problem as me with HIGH GAIN pickups in Ric 330's
or similar. I can't believe Rickenbacker are using these things as
standard in their otherwise incredible guitars. I have been an unhappy
330 owner since i bought it 6mths ago. I can't get a good sound out of
it no matter what settings I use or amps (i use ac30s) at any volume.
They sound like mushy cotton wool has clogged up inside them. The
bassier strings are much louder than the treble strings, everything is
unbalanced. I did some research and concluded that the new reissue
7.4k scatterwounds are going to solve my problem once and for all. I
ordered two today. I also discovered that the high gains are around
12-15k ohm which accounts for the wooliness.
You see Rics are famous for their jangle and the HGs don't jangle at
12-15k! My Telecaster with stock pups around 6.5k sounds more like a
ric than my 330 does!
If I want a hard rock sound I buy a Les Paul, SG etc. I bought a ric
for it to sound like the rics i hear on the old classic records -
classic clunky bright highs.
It breaks my heart to attack Rickenbacker but i want people to be wary
of what they're choosing:(

Jeff, I had the same problem on my new 2002, 330/12 and bought the
vintage pickups as a replacement.
I kinda' figured this going into the purchase of the guitar.
It was well worth the investment.
It sounds great.
Remove your frustration and to the swap.
I'm glad I did.
Hope this helped.
Mike

[Jeff]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I finally put scatterwound 7.4K's in
and WOW what a difference. I went further and put a .0047mf cap
between the pickup selector and the treble volume pot. This cleared
any residue muddiness up even further by cutting the lows. I also
added pyramid 11's. Now my Ric 330 is complete, and how it should have
been sold to me in the first place. Horses for courses though I guess,
and some may prefer the high gain pickup sound. Not me.